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Thursday, 26 April 2007

Weekly Update Introduction - 26th April '07

Dear Members,
Chag Sameach we hope you had an enjoyable Yom Haatzmaut. We are already
starting to get excited about Israel's 60th Birthday in a year!
We sent out last week the upsetting story of Rabbi Micky Boyden being
told not to participate in a Yom Hazikaron ceremony for his son and
other fallen soldiers. We received a large response from members and
have compiled them together for you to read - we have also passed on a
copy to Rabbi Boyden in Israel. We also include an op ed written by
Rabbi Boyden that should appear in some of the Jewish press this week.
It gives a personal account of the whole situation.
As always we would be glad to hear any further comments.


Op ed By Rabbi Michael Boyden


My late father, whose Liberal synagogue in Breslau (then Germany) was
burned down by the Nazis on Kristallnacht, was not in favour of my
making aliyah. "They don't want you in Israel," he used to say.

When he said "you", he meant Reform Judaism. Of course, on one level he
was right. We suffer from a level of religious discrimination here that
would not be tolerated anywhere else in the world.

Nevertheless, in spite of it all, Reform Judaism has taken root in the
Jewish State, because most Israelis do not have a religious home and,
for many, the kind of message we preach speaks their language.

While Israelis have voted with their feet and deeply resent the coercion
exercised by the religious establishment here, there are occasional
outbursts and actions that remind us that Israel still has some way to
go before it becomes the tolerant and pluralistic society that we would
wish it to be.

Only recently former Israeli chief rabbi Mordecai Eliyahu accused Reform
Jews of bearing responsibility for the Holocaust that destroyed one
third of our people. While we have learned to live with the ugly slurs
that come from ignorant people like him, we are nevertheless sometimes
faced with a level of prejudice that has no place in a modern,
pluralistic and democratic society.

Our son, Jonathan z"l, served in an elite parachute regiment and was
killed while participating in a dangerous rescue mission deep inside
Lebanon some 13 years ago. Time has not eased our pain. However, one of
the more positive elements of Israeli society is the attention and care
that we receive from the IDF and the respect that we are shown as a
bereaved family, particularly on Remembrance Day.

This year I was invited to recite the El Maley Rachamim memorial prayer
at the municipal remembrance ceremony in the town of Hod Hasharon where
I live. However, during the final days before the event things began to

There were threats of violence and local "religious" thugs threatened to
disrupt the ceremony if I were allowed to chant the prayer. In panic,
the event's organisers suggested that I drop my title and simply be
called to the podium as "Mr". Naturally, I refused to accede to such
discrimination and capitulate to the hooliganism of those who would
de-legitimize me.

Jonathan z"l made aliyah as the son of a Reform rabbi. He served in the
IDF as the son of a Reform rabbi. How could it possibly be acceptable
for his father to have to drop his title as the price for his
participation in a memorial service? It was as if my son was good enough
to give his life in defence of his country but that I was not good
enough to be treated equally and fairly on Remembrance Day.

Less than 24 hours before the ceremony was due to start, I was informed
that the invitation to me had been rescinded and that the prayer would
be recited by a military chazzan in my place. Naturally, I was devastated.

But in the darkness, there are also rays of light. People flocked to me
after the event to express their sympathy and identification with me.
The Israeli media covered the story extensively and sympathetically. The
mayor's office was flooded with protests from all over the world
condemning the discrimination against me.

The struggle for equal rights in the Jewish State is not yet over.
Nevertheless, more and more Israelis are coming into contact with Reform
Judaism and there is a growing demand for religious pluralism. In that
sense, my father was wrong. They do want us here, but the flames of
prejudice and discrimination have yet to be extinguished.

Rabbi Michael Boyden made aliyah with his family from the UK in 1985. He
is rabbi of the Kehilat Yonatan congregation in Hod Hasharon and
Director of the Rabbinic Court of the Israel Council of Progressive Rabbis

Members' feedback to Yom Hashoah Article

1. I think this is monstrously cruel and unacceptable, particularly as
Micky lost his son fighting for Israel.


2. Dear All
The difficulties for Israeli Reform and Progressive Communities
sometimes are mind boggling!
Michael Reik
Israel Desk
3. Not sure what sort of reaction you are expecting - this incident seems
unnecessarily distressing. While experience leads me not to take much
newspaper reporting at face value, this appears to show how much damage
orthodox factionalism is inflicting on the country.

4. I have emailed this article to everyone I know, including my Orthodox
family in Israel. What I hope to hear back from them is that they are
ashamed of this decision, but I don't hold out much hope.
I would have liked the article to refer to Mickey as Rabbi Boyden,
rather that just 'Boyden', which would have made their position clearer.
When will they ever learn?

5. Shalom,
Here is what I wrote in response to Mickey's request for support - alas,
it didn't help. It went to all the Town Councillors on his list.
Rabbi Walter Rothschild.


To His Honour the Mayor of Hod Hasharon,
Mr. Chai Adiv.

Dear Mr. Mayor,

I write in English to support my colleague Rabbi Mickey Boyden, of
MARAM, whom I first knew when I was still a rabbinic student in Britain
and he was serving a congregation in Manchester. He was a helpful mentor
to me then, and later he made Aliyah, became heavily involved in
building up Progressive Judaism in Israel (something which even Prime
Minister Olmert keeps telling us is so important to do!) and paid the
highest price that an Israeli parent can pay. I believe the rest of his
history and his activities are well-known to you.

And now he is facing the same sort of insulting discrimination which so
many of us have to face in our lives and careers. Suddenly a small group
of intolerant activists wish to push him to one side, to suit their own
prejudices. This must not be allowed to happen. I write with bitter
experience from the European Jewish community, and I know that the
moment one gives in to this sort of Antisemitism (for this is what it is
- Jewish Antisemitism, ignorant prejudice against Jews - and the fact
that it is Jews doing it makes it no better) that there will be no end
to the demands that this group will make. Once one gives in, they are
only encouraged to demand more and more.

They have the right to perform their rituals and their memorials
elsewhere - Israel is, in this respect, a free country. But they do NOT
have the right to prevent a rabbi from reciting a prayer, including for
his own son, just because they do not like some aspects of his theology.

In Germany, where I am the State Rabbi for Schleswig-Holstein, with five
congregations to minister to, there is in principle an agreement that
"all Jews work together in the Unified Communities". In our experience
it is however always a small number of self-appointed Orthodox bigots who:-
a). Try to prevent this cooperation and then
b) Try to blame the Liberal Jews for causing the split!!

Believe me, when this sort of thing is allowed to infect a community, it
can take very drastic measures to heal the splits again. I therefore
urge you to do all you can to prevent this precedent from being set.

It is still Shabbat afternoon here as I write, and no doubt some would
find this offensive, or maybe even proof of their worst prejudices. But
the issue is urgent with Yom haZikaron so close. One may save a life on
Shabbat, and to deny a father the right to mourn publicly for his son
and as a representative of other parents who are also mourning seems -
to me - to be such a dreadful offence, almost another murder, a removal
of a Name, and so I would rather write now, than wait until Motzaei
Shabbat. Your Council has a simple choice - to respect the wishes of the
organisation of bereaved parents that has nominated Rabbi Boyden to
speak on their behalfs, or to respect the wishes of those who wish to
prevent this in the name of Self-Righteousness and Intolerance. I hope
you will set a good and fair example to your citizens.

Shalom, Shavuah Tov,
Landesrabbiner Walter Rothschild.
Landesrabbiner von Schleswig-Holstein.

6. Really depressed and angry reading this morning`s article. We Jews
certainly don`t need any help from external bigots and oppressors, our
home grown variety are more than sufficent.

7. The Haredim don't object to Reform boys dying for them,but don't
want pray with them
.Absolutely disgracefull!
8. Primarily, of course, shock and disgust on the personal level at the
treatment of Rabbi Boyden. Our hearts have to go out to him and his family.

Nonetheless, in accepting that other aspects of this must be secondary
to the personal hurt, I believe they should be canvassed.

As religious Zionists we believe in a fully democratic Israel in the
secular sense, the Law of Return, and a society based on Jewish
religious values in so far as religiously committted persons can
influence the nature of that society.

Progressive Judaism, in its various organizational forms, is the main
stream of Judaism in this world. I see a real danger to Zionism from an
eventual rise in a feeling of disassociation by millions of Progressive
Jews in the Diaspora from Israel, if the authenticity and authority of
their (our) Judaism continues to be denied there.


9. I think this is truly shocking and makes one despair that such
discriminatory practice can take place - in Israel of all countries!


11. - And this was done in the name of religion? What happened to the
ideal of
rachmonas? It is an absolute disgrace, and Pro-Zion and other Progressive
groups should make vigorous objections to this sort of behaviour, which
surely will alienate many diaspora Jews whose support, both moral and
financial, these people welcome.

12. It is an absolute disgrace but unfortunately not something which
surprise me. After all, Lord Jacobovits said that aids was a function of
the wrath of God brought down on sinners and 'unbelievers' turning away
from orthodoxy.This is worse though.'Their' behaviour over Hugo Gryn's
funeral etc is in the same mould.


13. My reaction is one of disbelief that Jews can be so insensitive to
the pain that this action has obviously caused to Mickey Boyden and his

The whole weight of our Reform Movement should go on record on behalf of
Rabbi Boyden - no doubt this will have little effect but we must show
with those of our Movement who are prepared to stand up for their religious

Best Wishes


14.We are very distressed by this at Menorah, and our Chairman has sent
letters to the Jerusalem Post and elsewhere
Harry Lesser

15. Shameful.

16. It is simply beyond belief that a Reform Rabbi who made aliya from
Cheshire and whose son died in the defence of Israel was prevented from
participating in the Memorial ceremony at Hod Hasharon, the area where
he has created a congregation named for his beloved son.
I was privileged to read a special tribute to Jonathan Boyden at
Manchester's Yom Hazikaron ceremony on Sunday. I now feel his blessed
memory has been defiled
Is this the Israel so many of invest our time and energy in defending?
Is this the image we can defend and say we are proud to be Jews and Zionists
I know it is a cliché but it is not long since we commemorated those who
died in the Holocaust, Jews of every shade of our religion and secular
Jews in name only
I am truly ashamed that Rabbi Boyden has been treated in this way, and I
feel it a real Hillul Hashem that rabbis would think this is an
appropriate way to behave.
I hope they are shunned and shamed for that is what they deserve
Joy Wolfe

17. My husband and I are totally HORRIFIED to read what has happened to
Rabbi Boyden and his family.

We remember him from the days when he attended the RSGB Southern Region
Weekend in Eastbourne where I seem to remember he was keynote speaker
and he was inspirational.

We have attended ceremonies at the Kotel and on Mount Herzl many tines
on Yom Ha'Zikaron and I have never thought that anyone may consider
that those who fell in defence of Israel to have Orthodox or Non
Orthodox status but I have always been aware that in the eyes of some in
"authority" only the dead are Jewish, whilst the living are treated on
these (and many other occasions) with utter contempt.

On this basis, when we mourn the 6m on Yom Ha'Shoah, perhaps they would
like to give us their revised figures,

If the secular Zionists who created the State of Israel were with us
today would they, too, be gagged? Or is this punishment applied only to
the religious Jews, orthodox and reform?

If there is any way to convey our deepest sadness to Rabbi Boyden please
do so. He is often recalled by us with warmth.

Gilian and Ernie Walker

18. Disgusting ignorance but should we expect anything else from Haredim.
Kol Hakavod to Mickey Boyden who was a pupil of mine in the
alav hashalom days. Jerome Karet (Past Chair of RSGB as it then was)

Bereaved Rabbi Dropped from ceremony

Bereaved rabbi dropped from ceremony

A week after former Sephardic chief rabbi Mordechai Eliyahu said Reform
Judaism was the sin that caused God to bring about the rise of Nazi
Germany, Reform rabbi and grieving father Mickey Boyden has been removed
from reading a prayer in Hod Hasharon's memorial ceremony for fallen
soldiers on Sunday evening.

Boyden lost his son Yonatan in 1993, when, as a member of an elite Orev
paratroopers company, Yonatan participated in a rescue operation to save
soldiers who had come under fire in southern Lebanon. Boyden's
congregation, Kehilat Yonatan, is named in his Yonatan's honor.

A member of Yad Labanim, which commemorates Israel's fallen soldiers,
Boyden was asked a few weeks ago to chant the "El Maley Rachamim"
[Merciful God] prayer at the annual ceremony on Sunday evening.

Then, on Wednesday, he got a call from a reporter for the local /Al
Hasharon/ paper who told him that people objected to his doing so,
Boyden told /The Jerusalem Post/ on Sunday. "I was invited on Thursday
to a meeting of the Yad Labanim board, and they asked me whether I'd be
prepared to be called up to the stage to [chant the prayer], but without
my title as rabbi," he said.

Boyden refused: "I made aliya as Rabbi Boyden. My son served in the
[Orev unit of the Paratroopers] as the son of Rabbi Boyden. I've been
called up in past ceremonies to say kaddish [the prayer for the dead]
and speak on behalf of other bereaved parents as Rabbi Boyden. Why
should I be delegitimized in this way?"

For Boyden, being denied the right to say 'El Maley Rachamim' is as
though "[Reform Jews] are good enough when it comes to our sons fighting
for the defense of the country, but we become second-class citizens when
it comes to this."

According to sources in the Hod Hasharon Municipality and on Yad
Labanim's board, all of whom asked to remain anonymous due to the
sensitivity of the issue, the removal of Boyden from the ceremony came
after an Orthodox Sephardic synagogue threatened to disrupt the ceremony
should Rabbi Boyden be allowed to chant the prayer from the stage.

According to the sources, local rabbinic leader Reuven Hiller, who was
asked not to deliver a sermon at this year's memorial ceremony after Yad
Labanim received complaints that previous memorial sermons were overtly
political and inappropriate, decided to work for the removal of the
Reform rabbi from the ceremony.

Hiller, however, disputed the claim vociferously. "It is the Committee
of Grieving Families [which organizes the ceremony] that decided to
enact changes this year," he insisted, noting that "the protocol of Yad
Labanim calls for 'El Maley Rachamim' to be chanted by a cantor. Dozens
of grieving families opposed the addition of Boyden to speak.

Saturday, 21 April 2007

Weekly Update 20th April

Dear Members,
Two different articles this week. One very positive article about some
of the great work going on in Israel bringing different Jews together.
The other article is not so happy regarding the sad comments made by a
former Sephardi Chief Rabbi of Israel.
Israel itself will be experiencing a week of emotions with sadness
followed by joy. Yom Hazikaron will be remembered across the country and
this year there are yet more fallen soldiers as well as captives to
remember. The sad day is followed immediately by the celebrations of Yom
Haatzmaut which this year will be celebrating Israel's 59th birthday.

We hope to see many of you at communal Yom Haatzmaut celebrations. There
are some tickets still available for the Gala Concert (Tuesday 24th
April) - people need to phone the ZF asap - 020 8343 9756
Post-Concert party (Age 18+) at Alexandra Palace - 10.30pm till late.
This party will feature a guet appearance by Idan Raichel. Tickets £10.00

Monday 23rd April 2007 is the Israel Connect Yom Ha'atzmaut Party at
Muswell Hill, . 18 to 35 year olds give or take. Call ZF Office. On that
day also at Giffnopck Synagogue, Glasgow - Tickets from 0141 577 8220,
and at Edinburgh Hebrew Congregation - Tickets from 07734 291 836.
There are also events at most progressive synagogues. Please phone your
local congregation to discover what is going on.

Reform Blast Eliyahu for Shoah Remarks

Reform blast Eliyahu for Shoah remarks

The executive director of Arza, the Reform Movement's Zionist arm,
called on the Chief Rabbinate Tuesday to chastise Rabbi Mordechai
Eliyahu for blaming the Holocaust on Reform German Jews.

"Rabbi Eliyahu's outrageous statements point out just how out of touch
he is with Jewish reality," said Rabbi Andrew Davids in a telephone
interview with /The Jerusalem Post/ from New York. "Anyone with the most
basic understanding of German anti-Semitism would understand that there
is no relationship between the piety and religiosity of Jews and the
violence committed against them."

Davids was referring to statements made by Eliyahu, former chief
Sephardi rabbi of Israel, during an interview on a pirate haredi radio
station called "The Voice of Truth" [Kol Ha'emet].

Eliyahu, who was asked what was the sin of those murdered in the
Holocaust, responded that they were not to blame. Rather, he said, they
suffered because of the sins of the Reform Movement.

"The Reformers started in Germany," explained Eliyahu. "Those redactors
of the Jewish faith began in Germany. We learn from this that it is
forbidden to attempt to change Judaism."

Rabbi Shmuel Eliyahu, Mordechai's son, who is also the chief rabbi of
Safed, said his father had no regrets about his comments.

"It is not a coincidence that the Holocaust began in Germany," said
Shmuel Eliyahu Tuesday. "Whenever Jews try to act like goyim they are
punished. It happened during the Spanish Inquisition and it happened
during the Holocaust."

The Reform Movement in Israel filed a complaint against Eliyahu with the

Commenting on the police complaint against his father, Shmuel Eliyahu
said it reminded him of how German Jews disparaged their Eastern
European brothers.

Davids said Eliyahu's statements made him look ridiculous.
"As a former chief rabbi who held a state position, Eliyahu's remarks
shed a negative light on the entire State of Israel," he said.

Israel's Judaism Patchwork



It is a regular Friday night at a local Jerusalem synagogue. Flocks of
well-dressed men, women and children are trickling in, choosing prayer
books and filling the chairs of the 400-seat capacity auditorium of the
local community center. A young Israeli woman dressed in casual pants
and a sweater asks the usher to help her find the place in the prayer book.

"I haven't been to synagogue since I was a child," she says, smiling

It's not unusual to hear that kind of comment in Israel where Judaism is
the major religion of the majority – 76.1% – and where, according to the
Central Bureau of Statistics, five percent identify themselves as ultra
Orthodox, 12% as religious, 35% as traditional, 43% say they are secular
and 5% are anti-religious. Yet, according to a recent poll conducted by
the Hebrew daily /Yediot Aharonot/ and the Smith Institute, most
Israelis feel close to religion, and seven out of 10 Israelis believe in
the existence of God.

"It's true, if you ask most secular Israelis if they believe in God,
they would say yes," says Rabbi Meir Azari, from Tel Aviv's Beit Daniel,
the city's center for Reform Judaism. "But for secular Israelis, the
question has become, why are the Orthodox the Jewish voice? We're not
less Jewish than they are."

In Israel, a country where church – rather, synagogue – and state are
not separate, much of the country's religious life and fervor is
determined and driven by the Orthodox and ultra Orthodox.

It wasn't always like that. The founders of the state were Western and
Eastern European Jews, pioneers who ran away from the traditional Jewish
world. Their concept of Judaism was more socialist in nature, devoted to
building settlements and a rich cultural life. But while that generation
knew about Jewish traditions and rituals, their children did not.

The 1950s brought immigrants from North Africa, people who wanted to
keep their traditions while embracing their new lives in Israel. And in
the aftermath of the Holocaust, Europe's Orthodox Jews arrived there,
creating a new frontier that didn't know how to deal with Zionism, the
Jewish nationalist movement.

"Here you had a clash," explains Azari. "The Orthodox and North Africans
started establishing their own synagogues and there was suddenly a major
clash between the three communities. So, many Israelis had to choose
between black and white, between Orthodox and Zionist, or what was later
called 'secular.'"

Over the ensuing years, the Orthodox and ultra Orthodox became more
nationalist in nature, and more involved in the government. When they
claimed that they were the Jewish role models, representing the Jewish
world at large, they clashed with the secular Israelis, who had
traditionally been the Israeli power brokers.

"The Israeli Orthodox are very strong, not just as an institution, but
also in structure, in consciousness," says Dr. Leon Nissim, a lecturer
in sociology and anthropology at Bar-Ilan University. "In Israel, that
means we end up understanding religion through the prism of Orthodoxy,
while the secular Israelis try to see Judaism through culture."

More enmity between the secular and religious came to the fore with the
1995 assassination of Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin by Yigal Amir, a
religious Israeli Jew. Rabin's death brought about a national
soul-searching for many Israelis, both religious and secular. Secular
Israelis were more open about their dislike for religious Jews, while
many religious Jews questioned their allegiance and identification with
a religion that could produce a Yigal Amir.

For Azari, the effects of the Rabin assassination were immediate. While
some religious men were taking off their skullcaps in order to separate
themselves from any association with Yigal Amir, other secular Israelis
were coming back to the fold, celebrating their bar and bat mitzvahs and
weddings with more traditional ceremonies.

Israeli society also became more modern with regard to its view of
religion, points out Azari, as people traveled around the world and saw
other versions of Jewish ritual and observance.

"People were meeting Reform and Conservative Jews in America," he says.
"The picture of men and women sitting in synagogue together wasn't as
frightening or threatening. Israel became more pluralistic and people
were less afraid of what they didn't know."

What that shift has engendered is a strong desire on the part of many
secular Israelis to discover and rediscover their Judaism. In recent
years, dozens of organizations have been created or have initiated
programs that offer traditional Jewish learning to secular Israelis, and
often bring Israel's secular and religious together in an effort to
bridge the gaps and create more understanding of "the other." The
thinking, say those involved, is that like every nation, the last thing
the Jews need is internal enmity.

"I witnessed a lot of tension after Rabin's assassination, a lot of
raised voices about what is Judaism," says Rabbi Moti Bar-Or, who has
spent a good chunk of his professional life creating organizations that
are dedicated to relieving the religious-secular tension.

That turning point pushed Bar-Or to create Kolot, a Jerusalem-based
study center where more than 400 prominent secular and religious Israeli
have come together to study classical Jewish texts with the goal of
applying what they learn to life in Israel. The goal, says Bar-Or, is to
self-educate, to understand – particularly for the secular Israelis –
where they come from in terms of their Jewish heritage.

In practice, the study groups meet every other week for two years, as
well as for six weekends, studying 12 carefully chosen themes that are
taught by Kolot teachers in a roundtable discussion, using original
texts and sources. The majority of the participants are secular, at
least 80%, according to Bar-Or, divided equally between men and women,
generally between the ages of 26 and 50, and mostly outside of Jerusalem.

What draws most people to Kolot is the desire for exposure to Jewish
texts that they never learned previously, says Benny Rotem, 34, a
graduate of Kolot who wanted to study something "more spiritual than
software" and to better understand Judaism. Having grown up on a secular
kibbutz and describing himself as "totally secular," with very little
knowledge of Jewish religious life and thinking, he wanted his own
tools, not those created by the religious establishment.

"I wanted to hear ideas that I hadn't thought of, and to meet people
who had something in common with me, both religious and secular," says
Rotem, who heard about Kolot during a talk given by one of its lecturers.

"I heard ideas I hadn't thought of, and gained a desire to do better for
others. I don't necessarily understand why or how certain
interpretations were made of the Torah, but now I know where they come

Bar Ilan's Nissim calls the beit midrash, literally, a house of Jewish
learning, "the secular bookshelf."

"It's very similar in approach to Orthodoxy, this identity with the
text," he says. "They just use a secular commentary."

Kolot isn't the first organization of its kind. In fact, Bar-Or first
helped create Elul, which runs a beit midrash in Jerusalem for the joint
study of classical and modern Jewish texts by religious and secular
participants, and builds and guides other learning communities
throughout the country.

Elul has created 20 study communities throughout Israel, with programs
for new immigrants and soldiers, public lectures and workshops. There is
Alma, a liberal arts center in Tel Aviv for the study of Hebrew culture
and contemporary Jewish identity, while Beit Tefilla Yisraeli is a group
of secular Israelis who pray together on a regular basis in Tel Aviv.

And those are just a sampling of the wider menu of options in the world
of religious-secular relations.

"The renaissance of Jewish life in Israel owes a lot to American Jewry,"
said Rani Jaeger, one of the founders of Beit Tefilla Yisraeli, in a
recent speech to America's Jewish Reconstructionist Federation. Jaeger,
who spent several years working in San Francisco, says the goal of his
organization is to create a place where secular Israelis would feel
comfortable praying.

"We have one board member who keeps on telling us that he's an atheist,"
says Jaeger. "But he's never missed a week."

For each of the organizations, the goals are slightly different. Kolot
wants to create a force of learned community volunteers, while Beit
Daniel wants to widen Israelis' exposure to the Reform and Conservative
movements, both primarily American inventions that Azari feels could
continue to penetrate Israeli religious life. Some believe that these
learning communities will merge, becoming new, Israeli versions of what
can be defined as a religious community.

But, like their ancestors, these pioneers will continue questioning
their identity, forging, perhaps, a new Jewish voice.

By Jessica Steinberg on Thursday, April 12, 2007/

Tuesday, 10 April 2007

Welcome to the Pro Zion News Blog

Welcome to the Pro Zion News Blog

We will post here all stories that we send to our mailing list. You
may add comments to the stories by clicking on the comment option
underneath. We look forward to hearing your feedback.